Orange County Register

 8 Comments

• ocobserver says:

  November 23, 2009 at 4:56 pm

  I think the blogger is getting this all wrong.

  We are not socializing medicine here. It is the utimate in ‘capitalizing’ medicine since those with the capital (corporatacracy and their gobblement sychophants) are calling all the shots.

  Look, the lower and middle classes are being FORCED to buy a health insurance product from a private corporation or face a huge (thousands of dollars) fine at the end of the year and jail time if you refuse to pay the fine!! This will infuse $50 BILLION dollars of NEW revenue into the insurance and healthcare industries. The senate Bill completely drops the 5.4% tax on those making > $400000. And it completely drops the mandate for employers to insure their workers (only a fee if the employee is subsidized by the gobblement for his insurance). No, it just holds the working poor (lower and middle classes) feet to the fire by MANDATING them to have medical insurance!!! hah!! That is your basic ‘kleptocracy’ (look it up for yourself). FORCED ENRICHMENT OF THE CORPORATIONS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE COMMON MAN. That’s it in a nutshell. It is not full access. It’s FORCED access. Call it what it is, okay? Not socialism. It’s the ultimate in capitalism (kleptocracy).
  • rob says:

    November 26, 2009 at 5:37 am

    OH NOOOOOOO he learned a new word.
• Chris Bieber says:

  November 23, 2009 at 7:21 pm

  Mr. Landsbaum does a good job of pointing out in argumentative form the evils of government medicine.

  OCObserver is utterly conditioned into not viewing Governnment as FORCE ie GUN and that using LEGAL government “force” to achieve a social or political end(Govt Health “Care”)is evidently a good thing.

  The gun of the State at the heads of Doctors, medical providers, insurance, medicine, patients AND TAXPAYERS…

  how ‘conservative” is that???

  that is the definition of tyranny.

  Turning practitioners of the ART of medicine into GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES….that is socialism…..

  and that results in a SOCIALIST government….England and East Germany ring a bell????

  The AMA and BioMed whores hopping from government bed to government bed like a louse and their “complaining’ of difficulties..and income problems… and supporting “Hope” and “Change”……HA! ..

  they are NOT representatives of the market……but shills of the State.

  Thanks Mark for your effective writing on the subject.
  • ocobserver says:

    November 23, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    chris,

    England and East Germany don’t take bribes from their corporations and, in turn, reward them with $50 BILLION added revenue dollars by extorting the lower and middle classes to purchase a commericial product from private corporations against their will under threat of excise taxes and jail.

    What you have here is government and the corporatocracy (which rules the politicians) combining their efforts to extort the general public to enrich themselves. That is not socialism. Socialism is gobblement ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. The HC reform proposal on the table doesn’t do this. The corporatocracy will still own the means of production and distribution. The government is merely extorting the citizens by FORCING them to buy a product from the corporatocracy which will result in $50 billion in NEW revenue for the insurance and healthcare industries and big bribes to the politicians for strongarming the public. By definition it is a “kleptocracy”. It has nothing to do with socialism!

    I think you’re confused, chris. Sit down and rethink the premise of your assertion. It really makes no sense.
• Mike says:

  November 23, 2009 at 7:29 pm

  The CATO Institute, as usual, is lying out of their teeth to keep profiting off of an inadequate and backwards system.

  The cancer statistics are skewed due to the way cancer is treated in the US. Prostate cancer is a common issue in older men, but it also is not immediately harmful in most cases to where many people go their entire lives and die of natural causes far before their cancerous prostate kills them. Nevertheless, they are considered “cancer survivors”. Furthermore, they oftentimes do undergo dangerous chemotherapy (a technique that is basically trying to poison the body to the point where it barely survives but the cancer dies) which ends up lessening the lifespan of the patient far more than just allowing the prostate to take its course. The mortality rates you quoted also do not take into account the large number of Americans that were never diagnosed with that cancer in the first place due to inability to pay for care (no, ERs will not attempt to cure your cancer, they will only treat the emergency symptoms at hand and discharge you while handing you a fat bill if you’re uninsured). Additionally, the cancer rates in Canada/UK also represent the fact that the cancers detected are in fact more dangerous cancers, which no amount of medical care can prevent (even in the US).

  When people speak about “access” to CT scans, they refer to the number of machines. What is not mentioned in this figure is that the only reason we have so many CT scans is because of excess capacity. Many doctors now are paid per procedure, creating an incentive to order as many tests as possible to increase the amount paid, and billing it to the insurance company. Canadians and Britons do not go without necessary scans. Yet another misrepresentation of the true situation.

  18 months for a “specialist”? You’re referring to a worst-case scenario in only extremely specialized fields. The mean wait times for surgeons and other specialists is 4-6 weeks, oftentimes on par with or even beating US wait times. Of course, it takes less time to wait for a doctor when you don’t need to spend weeks arguing with your claims adjuster why they should approve your claim. As for the “8 out of 10 medical advancements come out of America”? Please, that’s just outright incorrect and more ignorant “exceptionalism” on behalf of self-serving libertarian thought.

  Finally, the link to the CATO study is incorrect. It points to a Climate Change study by the CATO Institute. Perhaps, however, that is what you meant to do. After all, CATO’s arguments against socialized health insurance are without merit and may as well be invisible.
• Tolens says:

  November 24, 2009 at 8:57 am

  The more government is involved in health insurance, the worse the situation becomes. The convoluted and increasingly failing (unavailable and high cost) system we currently have is the result of government intervention into the health care economy. It made transitory conditions, your current employer, the central controlling piece, and ordained group insurance the primary type to be had. Neither of these suit the typical person.

  The proposed health care plan is apparently even worse than most foreign (socialist) health care plans. At least their systems were designed and implemented in a coherent fashion. The system we will now get is a giant hodge-podge of conflicting ideas and special interests with no central ideology. Turf wars are a-coming.

  It is still amazing to me the “we hate” group who dominates leftist politics cannot see how short-sighted the hate-the-rich, hate-the-employed, hate-the-sucessful means you force build an unnatural system that cannot be maintain except thru the armed compulsion of the state. Their reasoning for forcing people to do their desires sounds like ante-bellum slave owners extolling the virtues of taking care of the poor negros who were unable to think for themselves.
• Marc960 says:

  November 24, 2009 at 12:51 pm

  The “Health Care Reform” and the “Cap and Trade” legislation are two massive intrusions into our back pockets and our personal lives.

  Either one of these will give huge powers to bureaucrats, not elected officials, to dominate their will on the citizen under the Force of Law.

  This is why, for the first time in my life, can I say that I fear my government.
  • ocobserver says:

    November 25, 2009 at 8:51 am

    Yes, Marc. You should be scared.

    You have the gobblement holding a proverbial gun to the head of the american citizens saying “purchase this commercial product from a private company or we are going to hit you with THOUSANDS of dollars in fines and if you don’t pay it….jail you”.

    You know the senate has stripped their legislation of any additional tax on the wealthy (>$400000 income), right??? The senate is not even mandating the employers to buy healthcare for their workers anymore. The only ones having their feet held to the fire are lower and middle class workers who have to fund their own healthcare insurance.

    HAH.

    You’re feelings are legitimate, Marc. This is not some 4 star movie with russian actors playing the part of US politicians. This is real life. You have every right to be frightened. Your nation has been hijacked.